Baby boxes: Compassion or Cruelty

[Bread.]

4 should be a crime because....

It's a crime when you do that to a child that is not a newborn.

Not exactly.
I'm saying it's less of an issue.

As it sits now, there is no accountability.
Hypothetically speaking, I can go dump a baby that is not mine to "get rid of it" without killing it and without it being a crime.

If it were anything like the process is for an older child then not only would there be a paper trail but there would be more resources available for those mothers so instead of abandoning the child or putting it in "the system" they can stay together.

 

[Inkandtatts]

FINALLY! It’s only taken 4 pages for you to get to a reasonably well thought out comment.

Hypothetically speaking, I can go dump a baby that is not mine to "get rid of it" without killing it and without it being a crime.

Your hypothetical is a little extreme. You’re talking about abducting a newborn child and taking it to a baby box. I’m no expert in the minds of child abductors but I don’t imagine they’d do that.

It's a crime when you do that to a child that is not a newborn

Of course it is, because of the risk to a child who could harm themselves since we’ve already agree that an older child couldn’t be placed in a physical box.

If it were anything like the process is for an older child then not only would there be a paper trail but there would be more resources available for those mothers so instead of abandoning the child or putting it in "the system" they can stay together

You miss the point though. I’ve already quoted the organisation that campaigned for baby boxes and they do offer support for women in these situations.

You also miss the point that the women who use these boxes (and it’s very very few in number) don’t want/can’t cope with their babies. These are the same women you’d hate on if they’d aborted the baby. Instead they choose to give birth and still you criticise them unless they do things the way you argue they should

 

[Bread.]

FINALLY! It’s only taken 4 pages for you to get to a reasonably well thought out comment.

You'd be surprised how quickly someone can express their views when they're not responding to shitposts.

Your hypothetical is a little extreme. You’re talking about abducting a newborn child and taking it to a baby box. I’m no expert in the minds of child abductors but I don’t imagine they’d do that.

It's not extreme it's reality. You can take your sisters newborn baby and go dump it in a box. Why? Because it can be done anonymously and legally.

who's baby is it? No one will know unless they ask for it.

Will your sister ask for it? Probably
Will the undocumented underaged rape baby couple come ask for it? Not likely.

Of course it is, because of the risk to a child who could harm themselves since we’ve already agree that an older child couldn’t be placed in a physical box.

I already explained to you that I'm not talking about physically shoving a 6 year old in a baby box. I'm saying you can't abandon a 6 year old anonymously and legally like you can a newborn.

Let's call it a baby room, does that solve your safety issues about cramming a 6 year old into a box?

Is there 10x10 ft rooms available where people can anonymously and legally drop off 6 year olds they don't want to or can care for?

You miss the point though. I’ve already quoted the organisation that campaigned for baby boxes and they do offer support for women in these situations.

You also miss the point that the women who use these boxes (and it’s very very few in number) don’t want/can’t cope with their babies. These are the same women you’d hate on if they’d aborted the baby. Instead they choose to give birth and still you criticise them unless they do things the way you argue they should

You've still not commented on whether you are pro life or pro choice but I can also make assumptions.

So which is it for you?

 

[Inkandtatts]

It's not extreme it's reality. You can take your sisters newborn baby and go dump it in a box. Why? Because it can be done anonymously and legally.

who's baby is it? No one will know unless they ask for it.

Will your sister ask for it? Probably
Will the undocumented underaged rape baby couple come ask for it? Not likely.

That’s one of the most illogical things I’ve ever read. If these abductors wanted to take a baby away (in the absence of a baby box), at best they’d go to a police station and say they found the baby abandoned in the road. At worst, they’d do something altogether more sinister. Baby boxes aren’t facilitating child abduction, as you suggest they are.

Is there 10x10 ft rooms available where people can anonymously and legally drop off 6 year olds they don't want to or can care for?

Not as far as I am aware although I guess there’s a situation where a desperate mother who rocks up to social services with their children is the equivalent. I don’t know how that works though.

The reason these hypothetical rooms don’t exist is because they’ve not been legislated for. I don’t know what the stats are for kids being abandoned in public and left to die but I would guess that such information would play a part in determining whether these hypothetical rooms would ever become reality.

The fact is, baby boxes save lives and you can’t get away from that. To oppose them is to say you’d rather see dead babies in public places because we know for a fact that the anonymity is what saves the lives of those babies.

You've still not commented on whether you are pro life or pro choice

My views on abortion are irrelevant to this topic and whichever assumption you make is of no consequence to me

 

[Bread.]

That’s one of the most illogical things I’ve ever read. If these abductors wanted to take a baby away (in the absence of a baby box), at best they’d go to a police station and say they found the baby abandoned in the road. At worst, they’d do something altogether more sinister. Baby boxes aren’t facilitating child abduction, as you suggest they are

How would you know? Do you manage baby boxes or have any idea where or who these "anonymous" storks are dropping them off?

I'm simply stating they can, it's a reality because... It's ... ANONYMOUS.

I'm saying you can abduct a child, drop it off at a baby box and who is to know the difference because no one knows who dropped it off.

Not as far as I am aware although I guess there’s a situation where a desperate mother who rocks up to social services with their children is the equivalent. I don’t know how that works though.

The reason these hypothetical rooms don’t exist is because they’ve not been legislated for. I don’t know what the stats are for kids being abandoned in public and left to die but I would guess that such information would play a part in determining whether these hypothetical rooms would ever become reality.

Yeah no sh1t. Now explain to me WHY they don't exist beyond "it don't exist cuz no one's made them"

If the reason baby boxes exist is for the "welfare of children" then why don't baby box ROOMS exist for grown children?

Do we draw the line of child welfare at less than 30 days since birth?

If society cares about the welfare of children then why stop at 30 days old.

Why tell everyone over 30 days they can't do it anonymously?

Why are mothers over 30 days subject to paper trails and responsibilities?

The fact is, baby boxes save lives and you can’t get away from that. To oppose them is to say you’d rather see dead babies in public places because we know for a fact that the anonymity is what saves the lives of those babies.

The debate is not about whether these boxes saves lives. Have I said they don't save lives? Go back and tell me where I've said that.

I don't know how many times I have to reiterate the OP.

My views on abortion are irrelevant to this topic and whichever assumption you make is of no consequence to me

So then stop bringing up these irrelevant topics >>>>

These are the same women you’d hate on if they’d aborted the baby. Instead they choose to give birth and still you criticise them unless they do things the way you argue they should

then tell me I'm changing the topic when I choose to respond to them. You want to bring up abortion then and tell me you don't want to comment about abortion. That's not how a debate works.

 

[Inkandtatts]

I'm simply stating they can, it's a reality because... It's ... ANONYMOUS.

I mean, If your argument now is that whatever is said is potentially right because it’s simply possible it could be possible that you’re a child abductor and hence that’s why you know it’s possible that people abduct babies and take them to baby boxes.

m saying you can abduct a child, drop it off at a baby box and who is to know the difference because no one knows who dropped it off.

See above + yes that’s possible. Still doesn’t answer your debate question.

ah no ****. Now explain to me WHY they don't exist beyond "it don't exist cuz no one's made them"

If the reason baby boxes exist is for the "welfare" of children" then why don't baby box ROOMS exist for grown children?

Do we draw the line of child welfare at less than 30 days since birth?

If society cares about the welfare of children then why stop at 30 days old. Why tell everyone over 30 days they can go pound sand?

No idea. If you want to ask all those hypotheticals, talk to your member of congress.

The debate is not about whether these boxes saves lives. Have I said they don't save lives? Go back and tell me where I've said that.

Glad we’re in ageeemebt that they’re compassionate and not cruel which frankly was the debate you started. If the life-saving benefit doesn’t justify why they’re compassionate then you can’t argue that they’re cruel without also arguing that babies would be better off left on the street to die.

I'm not saying they're stealing them from the baby box.

Go back and tell me where I said you did. I didn’t. Actually, don’t. I’m done feeding the troll for now. Watching you flip about is thoroughly entertaining though and my first response still stands and anything else is just noise

Because if those aren’t available, the baby ends up deposited in public places wrapped in a blanket or worse, and dead

It’s a compromise. Save a baby’s life in exchange for not prosecuting the mother. I’d say that’s a reasonable compromise

 

[Bread.]

I mean, If your argument now is that whatever is said is potentially right because it’s simply possible it could be possible that you’re a child abductor and hence that’s why you know it’s possible that people abduct babies and take them to baby boxes.


See above + yes that’s possible. Still doesn’t answer your debate question.

There are several questions within my OP.

If I didn't want them answered I wouldn't have asked them.

Do you see a question mark on the title? No.

No idea. If you want to ask all those hypotheticals, talk to your member of congress.

Glad we’re in agreement that they’re compassionate and not cruel which frankly was the debate you started. If the life-saving benefit doesn’t justify why they’re compassionate then you can’t argue that they’re cruel without also arguing that babies would be better off left on the street to die.

Glad you are dodging my questions about where the "compassion" is for grown children.

I can argue that a mother abandoning her child because she simply doesn't want to be a mother is cruel. If she doesn't want to be a mother she should keep her legs closed.

I'm not saying they should be better off in the street I am saying these mothers need to be registered so
A.the baby has a history
B. The mother has a history and doesn't continue to do this.

Your counterargument is that if they can't do it anonymously they won't do it and they'd kill it or leave it in a dumpster instead.

So thats the trump all card?
Kill the baby because of guilt? That's okay?
But registering these mothers is not okay.

Would you like to see how many babies are still being found in dumpsters, despite these baby box availabilities?

 

[Inkandtatts]

Would you like to see how many babies are still being found in dumpsters, despite these baby box availabilities?

Actually yes, along with the details of how many were found in dumpsters before the baby boxes were available, with the data being collected over the same length of time.

Even this little bit of Breadsh!t. With the number of babies being left in baby boxes being extremely low, the suggestion that you need to register the mother to prevent them from doing it again is absurd.

I'm not saying they should be better off in the street I am saying these mothers need to be registered so
A.the baby has a history
B. The mother has a history and doesn't continue to do this.

Maybe you should grow a pair of testicles and admit when you’re pushing an agenda to suit yourself rather than framing it as a debate. Be a “real man”, Bread

 

[little cindy lou who]

 

[Radiation]

I can argue that a mother abandoning her child because she simply doesn't want to be a mother is cruel. If she doesn't want to be a mother she should keep her legs closed.

The entirety of your arguments seem to be about your idea of punishing women, instead of the actual welfare of the kid...

 

[Bread.]

Filling out a form to ensure the child has an established history of its mother as well as possibly caring for their health/genetic family history is a form of punishment to you?

 

[Radiation]

Filling out a form to ensure the child has an established history of its mother as well as possibly caring for their health/genetic family history is a form of punishment to you?

That's not what you said. You said "she should keep her legs closed". Shows exactly where your priorities lie.

 

[Bread.]

Go read the opening post. It is in summary saying why is one okay but not the other.

Why is it okay to dump a newborn but it's not okay to dump a grown child.

Why is it okay for the newborn mother not to register but the grown child mother has to register.

Why is it not illegal for the newborn mother but illegal for the grown mother.


Keeping their legs closed would prevent the issue entirely.

Filling out a form would solve the issue of anonymity after they fail to keep their legs closed.

I don't see how either is a punishment.

 

[Bread.]

That's not what you said. You said "she should keep her legs closed". Shows exactly where your priorities lie.

See this is what I also said. I said several pages ago. Not just now. So stop cherrypicking comments so you can try to one up me with your little circlejerking like button gang.

If they really wanted to help the child by giving it a better future(debatable) then why wouldn't they want the child to know who their mother is? Are they really helping the child by not helping disclosing any sort of genetic medical conditions? Denying them of any inheritance rights? Why do it anonymously? Doing it anonymously means you don't want nothing to do with that child.

 

[little cindy lou who]

Go read the opening post. It is in summary saying why is one okay but not the other.

Why is it okay to dump a newborn but it's not okay to dump a grown child.

Why is it okay for the newborn mother not to register but the grown child mother has to register.

Why is it not illegal for the newborn mother but illegal for the grown mother.


Keeping their legs closed would prevent the issue entirely.

Filling out a form would solve the issue of anonymity after they fail to keep their legs closed.

I don't see how either is a punishment.

Any Woman Anonymously Abandoning Her New Born Infant In A Public Place Should Be Prosecuted To The Full Extent Of The Law

But Your Summation That It Is Simply A Moral Choice of Chastity Or Promiscuity ...

Shows What A Misogynistic Ass-Hole You Are Along With The Obnoxious Ignorant Biblical References To "GOD" 🙄 ...

Hypocrisy Knows No Bounds When It Comes To Religion

And People Manipulating Their Religious Views To Defend An Argumentative Point Over A Legal Issue In A Free Society

You're Telling Women To Keep Their "Legs Closed" ? .. That Right ? Reverend Of The Sacred Bleeding Hearts Of Jayzus 🙄 ...

Maybe YOU Should Keep Your Mouth Shut 🤐

 

[Bread.]

Any Woman Anonymously Abandoning Her New Born Infant In A Public Place Should Be Prosecuted To The Full Extent Of The Law

The baby box law says it's okay to do that so long as it's in our box.

But Your Summation That It Is Simply A Moral Choice of Chastity Or Promiscuity ...

Go read the opening post.

Proponents argue that baby boxes provide a safe and anonymous option for mothers who are unable or unwilling to care for their newborns.

It clearly says OR
Women who can't take of their child
OR
Women who don't want to.

Of course I'm not to going to be compassionate about the latter. A promiscuous woman who chooses to have a baby(because it is a choice)Who then goes and abandons this child.

If you want me to list all the choices they have on preventing a pregnancy I can do that, but it all begins with the letter A. Abstinence.

Shows What A Misogynistic Ass-Hole You Are Along With The Obnoxious Ignorant Biblical References To "GOD" 🙄 ...

Hypocrisy Knows No Bounds When It Comes To Religion

And People Manipulating Their Religious Views To Defend An Argumentative Point Over A Legal Issue In A Free Society

God created all of us and I'm not going to stand for women that murder or abandon their babies. It is immoral.

You're Telling Women To Keep Their "Legs Closed" ? .. That Right ? Reverend Of The Sacred Bleeding Hearts Of Jayzus 🙄 ...

Maybe YOU Should Keep Your Mouth Shut 🤐

Im telling women that don't want children to keep their legs closed and stop abandoning and murdering babies.

I'm sorry if it upsets you that I'm speaking up for babies who can not speak.

 

[Inkandtatts]

I'm sorry if it upsets you that I'm speaking up for babies who can not speak

You’re speaking up for the vitriolic moron that you are, end of story.

God created all of us and I'm not going to stand for women that murder or abandon their babies. It is immoral.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Don’t get pissy when yours is wrong

Im telling women that don't want children to keep their legs closed and stop abandoning and murdering babies.

It’s highly regrettable that Bread Senior didn’t tell your mother to keep her legs closed. I’m sorry if it upsets you but I’m speaking up for the readers of the trash you post



#BreadLife
#MasturbatorNotMasterDebater

 

[Radiation]

Of course I'm not to going to be compassionate about the latter. A promiscuous woman who chooses to have a baby(because it is a choice)Who then goes and abandons this child.

If you want me to list all the choices they have on preventing a pregnancy I can do that, but it all begins with the letter A. Abstinence.

Just out of curiosity - are you holding men to the same standard? You do realize that it takes two to tango, right? Do you refer to men who get laid a lot as promiscuous? Do you go on rants about how bad it is for fathers to abandon their children? If you've done any of this, haven't seen it!

 

[Bread.]

You’re speaking up for the vitriolic moron that you are, end of story.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Don’t get pissy when yours is wrong

It’s highly regrettable that Bread Senior didn’t tell your mother to keep her legs closed. I’m sorry if it upsets you but I’m speaking up for the readers of the trash you post

My opinion is you're clearly ASSHURT

Just out of curiosity - are you holding men to the same standard? You do realize that it takes two to tango, right? Do you refer to men who get laid a lot as promiscuous? Do you go on rants about how bad it is for fathers to abandon their children? If you've done any of this, haven't seen it!

Is this debate about mothers or fathers?

If you want to make a debate about Father's go ahead and make one and I'll be glad to post in it.
So kindly **** off and make your own debate and don't tell me what mine should be out.

Men don't get pregnant and men don't have rights to children otherwise we wouldn't have abortions.

Isn't your motto
"Her body her CHOICE"

If she can choose to abort it she can choose to keep her legs closed.

 

[Inkandtatts]

My opinion is you're clearly ASSHURT

Not right now but hopefully later this evening I will be 🥵

Men don't get pregnant and men don't have rights to children otherwise we wouldn't have abortions.

So you’re saying if men could get pregnant all babies would be aborted. Or maybe not. The grammar there is an offence to the eyes

#MasturbatorNotMasterDebater