Is the Church more interested in its reputation than protecting children?

Inkandtatts

Gay Chat Admin/UM
Staff member
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It's no secret that child abuse has been rife in the Church.

A story came up today about a priest being paid by the Church to go away. Some argue that the payout was because the Church didn't want it to become publicly known what the priest had been accused of, in order to protect the Church's reputation. Others argue that the Church was in a difficult situation and couldn't get rid of the priest so they had to pay him off.

I don't want to make this a huge post by including the full article (it's a long read) so I've put it behind a spoiler if you want to read it. I've had to crop part of it because of the character limit on posts. The full article is available on the BBC News website.

What do you think? Is the Church more interested in its reputation than protecting children?

The Church of England made a six-figure pay-off to a priest assessed as a potential risk to children and young people, a BBC investigation has found.

Canon Andrew Hindley - who worked in Blackburn diocese from 1991 to 2021 - was subject to five police investigations, including into allegations of sexual assault.
He has never been charged with any criminal offences and says he has never presented any safeguarding risk to anyone.
A senior member of staff at Blackburn Cathedral resigned over the settlement and says concerns about the priest were “an open secret” among senior clergy.
The former Bishop of Blackburn Julian Henderson described the financial settlement when he was in post as the “only option” left for the Church “to protect children and vulnerable young people from the risk Canon Hindley posed”.
The archbishops of Canterbury and York have told the BBC they are “still working” to get Church processes right and “must learn” from past mistakes.
Despite many people we approached being unwilling to talk, our two-year investigation also found:
  • Restrictions on Canon Hindley, banning him from choir school and school visits, were never monitored
  • The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Most Reverend Justin Welby, backed a plan to close Blackburn Cathedral if the priest returned to work from suspension
  • Three Lancashire bishops complained “strings have been pulled and networks have been used to effect Canon Hindley’s ongoing ministry”
  • There were previous attempts to pay the priest to leave, dating back more than 15 years

The pay-off​

In 2022, Canon Hindley was offered £240,000, the BBC understands. We do not know the final amount paid because the parties signed non-disclosure agreements keeping it secret.

The Church of England said it was settling legal action brought by the priest in response to an earlier Church decision to force him to retire.
But the BBC has seen evidence the Church tried several times over the years to pay off Canon Hindley.

It was the “tipping point” for Rowena Pailing, who quit as the cathedral’s vice-dean and head of safeguarding, ending a nearly 20-year career with the Church of England.

“I couldn't work for an organisation which put its own reputation and the protection of alleged abusers above the protection and care and listening to victims and survivors,” she tells the BBC, speaking publicly for the first time about the case.

The message the payment sends to victims and survivors is “absolutely horrific… I was devastated”.

Mrs Pailing says that when she was offered the job in 2018 she was warned of “serious safeguarding concerns and allegations” over a priest, spanning “a long period of about 25 years”.

She says she was assured there was a plan to deal with it. But after taking up the post “it became quite clear there was no plan” and quickly realised the Church of England was sitting on an open secret.

Recalling an event at Lambeth Palace, home of the Archbishop of Canterbury, she says: “There was a bishop from another diocese who referred to the particular canon by name and asked if he was still up to his old tricks.”

Internal Church of England documents, seen by the BBC, show there had been concerns about Blackburn Cathedral for years.

A 2009 cathedral inspection concluded Canon Hindley “may pose a threat to young men” and to the cathedral’s name.

Over the years, Lancashire Police opened five investigations into Canon Hindley:

  • 1991: Allegation of sex with a 17-year-old boy when the age of consent for gay men was 21
  • 2000: Allegation of sex with a 15-year-old boy when the age of consent was 16
Both investigations were dropped after the alleged victims and the canon denied the allegations.

Police took no further action in three other investigations. In each, Canon Hindley denied the allegations:

  • 2001: Allegation of sexual assault of a teenage boy three years earlier - a later report commissioned by the Church shows Canon Hindley had been accused of giving the alleged victim alcohol, encouraging him to watch pornography and touching his genitals
  • 2006: Allegation over remarks made to a 15-year-old boy
  • 2018: Allegations of sexual assaults at a party in the cathedral garden
Lancashire Police says it assessed all available information and “where evidence was available investigations were undertaken and advice sought from the Crown Prosecution Service” but that “this did not result in any charges being brought”.

As well as police investigations, church leaders, with a duty of care to churchgoers and staff, commissioned several expert risk assessments into whether Canon Hindley posed a safeguarding risk.

The repeated failure to definitively act on the findings of these risk assessments, and other warnings, is at the centre of our investigation.

The Cathedral did suspend Canon Hindley at least twice and banned him from choir school, junior confirmation groups and school visits. But - according to a document we have seen - “the restrictions were never monitored”.

‘Teflon priest’​

For years, he remained as Canon Sacrist, planning services and managing the vergers and servers, while living in a cathedral townhouse.

A review of cathedral residence arrangements in 2020 noted colleagues nicknamed him “Teflon”, implying complaints or allegations would never stick.

Canon Hindley claims he was subjected to a campaign to drive him from the church “which was motivated by homophobia and personal agendas” and “the Church has allowed its safeguarding procedures to be hijacked, weaponised and misused”.

Also in 2020, a report by a consultant clinical psychologist concluded there was “low to moderate risk of future inappropriate sexual behaviour” with risk increasing if Canon Hindley spent “prolonged periods of time alone in the company of young males”.

It was the last in the series of risk assessments.

Thirteen years earlier, the children’s charity the NSPCC had said Canon Hindley presented “a risk of significant harm to children and young people” and advised he “should have no unsupervised contact with children or young people”.

It also recommended he attend a sex offender programme and his risk be reassessed - and if he failed to co-operate, the Church should think about ending his employment.

The priest challenged the findings.

A review he commissioned by a social work researcher in 2007 said “it would be hard to sustain an argument of predatory targeting behaviour” but Canon Hindley “needs support on developing his boundaries in relation to work with children”.

A judge also made some criticisms of the report, while considering an unrelated case. Referring to the criticisms, Canon Hindley has told the BBC the judge concluded the authors of the NSPCC report had failed to properly understand their role and remit and appeared to “equate homosexuality with a risk of paedophile abuse”.

In 2017, Canon Hindley was offered a job in another diocese - but it was withdrawn after a risk assesssment found “significant safeguarding risks”. He remained in post at Blackburn.

Alleged victim told ‘move on’​

A close family member of one of Canon Hindley’s alleged victims says that the Church had been afraid to act.

She did not want to be identified and would not talk about her relative’s allegations against Canon Hindley.

Joan - not her real name - says when her relative made a complaint of sexual misconduct against the priest, “the first reaction seemed to be one of a fear to take it on”.

“That fear seemed to revolve around the likelihood that the Church could be brought down by this.”

She recalls a letter from a previous Bishop of Blackburn advising the family “to move on”.

“I thought that was quite an offensive thing to say to us. It was like sweeping it under the carpet.”

The family felt “completely dismayed” that their complaint was never tackled, says Joan.

“We don't know what the outcome would have been. But nobody tried.”
 
Justin Welby, The Archbishop of Canterbury, has quit after failing to be proactive (allegedly being part of a cover-up) when dealing with reports of sexual abuse within the Church of England.

The Makin review, published last week, said Welby "could and should" have reported Smyth's abuse of boys and young men to police in 2013. Welby said in his resignation that he was told police had been notified in 2013 and "believed wrongly that an appropriate resolution would follow"

View attachment 985994

  • A day after he resigned, another bishop has said that "in some ways, we are not a safe institution"
  • Julie Conalt, the deputy lead bishop for safeguarding, said the Church of England has an "institutional problem where we are not putting victims and survivors at the centre"
 
Owning assets is needed for large organisations religions are no different. You also need to look at what they do with said assets some religions do the maximum good with the income they derive.

Also I might add wiki is probably the worst place to gather information on anyone or anything.

You also need to define which church. Catholic and Anglican churches have obviously had a very bad history with this.

I have friends in various faiths and I have talked to them about this very issue.

A good example is the Mormons, they have a policy in essence of believe the child 1st. Anyone accused is immediately separated from any potential contact with kids. Victims families are offered help with things such as counselling. Law enforcement is brought in with consultation with the victims family.

They will hold a meeting to excommunicate the offender. They also keep extensive records of members so if they reappear in another area there is greater potential to be caught out.

The thing I always think about with this sort of subject is that child molesters will always try to get involved in places where kids are involved in large groups, especially if there is disadvantaged children about religious bodies are an obvious target.

My Father attended a thing called Church Of England boys society when he was I think from the age of 10/11 until his late teens. A bunch of his friends there were molested by a group of pedos. He told me each kid that was molested came from a single parent household that was economically challenged. He felt he was not fully targeted because he was from a functional upper middle class family.
 
Fuck the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints, a.k.a. Mormonism. Joseph Smith is 🎼🎶 dum dum dum dum dum 🎶

road standing GIF by South Park
 
Owning assets is needed for large organisations religions are no different. You also need to look at what they do with said assets some religions do the maximum good with the income they derive.

Also I might add wiki is probably the worst place to gather information on anyone or anything.

It's fine for a quick snapshot of net worth. You'll find pretty much the same wealth estimates wherever you look.

You also need to define which church. Catholic and Anglican churches have obviously had a very bad history with this.

I have friends in various faiths and I have talked to them about this very issue.

A good example is the Mormons, they have a policy in essence of believe the child 1st. Anyone accused is immediately separated from any potential contact with kids. Victims families are offered help with things such as counselling. Law enforcement is brought in with consultation with the victims family.

They will hold a meeting to excommunicate the offender. They also keep extensive records of members so if they reappear in another area there is greater potential to be caught out.

They'll also support a pregnant woman to have her child rather than an abortion, appear to be there for her all through the pregnancy and then drop her like a hot potato once the child is born. Mormons are not a good reference point for church morality. They've been found to be riddled with corruption to the point of actual murder.

The thing I always think about with this sort of subject is that child molesters will always try to get involved in places where kids are involved in large groups, especially if there is disadvantaged children about religious bodies are an obvious target.

My Father attended a thing called Church Of England boys society when he was I think from the age of 10/11 until his late teens. A bunch of his friends there were molested by a group of pedos. He told me each kid that was molested came from a single parent household that was economically challenged. He felt he was not fully targeted because he was from a functional upper middle class family.

Obviously. The point is that the churches are more interested in reputational damage limitation than actual justice "oh old so and so's been at it again, find him a position where he can't do much harm quickly". Priests will be priests after all eh?

The most corrupt organization ever.

I think the catholic church might actually take that particular crown.
 
They'll also support a pregnant woman to have her child rather than an abortion, appear to be there for her all through the pregnancy and then drop her like a hot potato once the child is born. Mormons are not a good reference point for church morality. They've been found to be riddled with corruption to the point of actual murder.
Can you sight any reputable non anti Mormon information on the murder thing. I know from my friends experience she has been well supported.
 
Can you sight any reputable non anti Mormon information on the murder thing. I know from my friends experience she has been well supported.
A search will give you some information. There have been books published about it, a TV series made about it and court cases of course. I'd add links but external links aren't allowed and I've had them removed before.

I have some knowledge about the treatment of pregnant women by that church. The statement I made before about them persuading a woman not to have an abortion but to carry the child to term is true. They were supportive up until the child was born and then dropped the woman like a hot potato. All they were interested in was the child itself and the possibility of getting it to become a church member in the future. The mother was viewed as sinning and unworthy.

I hope your friend is better treated, but this organisation is run as a business demanding a substantial tithe on members' earnings (10% of their income and it's an actual mormon commandment that they do so). I rank their "church" pretty much alongside the scientology mob.
 
A good example is the Mormons, they have a policy in essence of believe the child 1st. Anyone accused is immediately separated from any potential contact with kids. Victims families are offered help with things such as counselling. Law enforcement is brought in with consultation with the victims family.

They will hold a meeting to excommunicate the offender. They also keep extensive records of members so if they reappear in another area there is greater potential to be caught out.
I wish this was always true when it’s the elders involved and parents turn a blind eye.

Every single religious group is corrupt somewhere and somehow.

I especially hate the fact they pretend to care and do something about it. Only after the fact.
 
the church; all of them, & their denominations are a slant against god…

organized religion is inherently blasphemous

christ spoke against organized religion, in fact jesus was crucified by folks that were part of his own organized religion

its all in the good book, believe it 🙏🏻

remember, your body is a temple, so why do you need a house of worship anyway???

its all a material trap designed to sway your mortal coil from salvation so u can continue to reincarnate; repeating the cycle instead of going to the afterlife, & all that jazz…

yaweh / jehovah is a bastard god, which lords over the human realm; that prevents your eternal soul from entering the spiritual plane forcing you to endlessly reincarnate, this the false idol who the church tricks u into worshipping 🤷🏼‍♀️

the false idol that demands veneration in blood, & money

jesus was a martyr, whos death was supposed to expose the blasphemy of organized religion, not solidify it; he died for the sins of men, religious men, to show people that you dont need organized religion to live a good & blessed life to be a good & blessed person; he was killed for it, the same way good people are killed now for exposing high profile predators today including still the modern church 👺

some wicked things in the world, & its all for realsies; if u scared goto church ~

peace,
god-bless 🕊️🕊️
 
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