babydolla
Gold Member
it's really quite simple my boy...
russia invading ukraine gave the golden oppurtunity to start weening off europe's dependence on russian gas & oil...
it provides a golden oppurtunity to make europe dependent on american gas & oil instead...
the goal isn't so much about kicking russia out of ukraine, or stopping it's invasion, they want the invasion... but rarther weakening russia instead in attempts to halt russian expansion into the arctic, bc a the ice caps are thawing creating sea lanes spanning from china to north america, totally avoiding tradional sea lanes like the suez canal, or the panana canal... allowing russia to essentially then dominate global trade, not to mention the vast untouched resources that russia is seething to exploit... therefore, cutting off russia's primary income, & isolating them from international systems & markets, makes them unable to continue expanding there, though they are still trying.. the war in ukraine, is the perfect excuse to go for russia's throat & choke them out into submission...
ukraine doesnt matter, no one care about ukraine before this happened, & no one will care about ukraine once it's over... it's a fucked up country just like russia, but they're an easy geopolitical tool, & a willing one at that... thus the narrative is now *ukraine good, russia bad*
tldr; ukraine is literally being used as a proxy force, this is their only strategic valuw...none of that aid is free, & ukraine will be thrown under the bus the moment these goals are met by the western powers
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I have yet to see any proof of that whatsoever. As far as I can tell the reason the USA got involved was because lots of people in the USA, including government officials, were outraged at the atrocities Russia was committing in Ukraine. Of course, if you have evidence otherwise, I'd love to hear it. It seems a little bit far-fetched to say this was all planned out in advance just to sell oil.
little cindy lou who
Gold Member
Interesting ... Myopic And Somewhat Far Fetched .. But There Are Valid Debating Points In Some Of That ..
The "Know One Cares About Ukraine " Part Is A Personal Opinion On The Views Of The International Community
And Not Very Insightful I Might Add
Ukrainians Care About Ukraine So Much So They Are Willing To Take On The Russian Army
And Fight ... And They Are Fighting To Win .. As It Is Their Very Survival And Existence As A Nation That Depends On That
And That Bravery And Courage The Ukrainian People Have To Do That .. Inspires The Whole World ... Even The Russian People
Who Do Not Want This War ... It Was Dumped On The Russian People By Vlad " The Bald Headed Priick " Who Is Power Trippin
At The Cost Of Dead Russian Soldiers 100,000 So Far And Counting .. And Worst Of All .. Thousands Of Dead Murdered Ukrainian
Children, Women (Sexually Violated), Old Men, And The Brave Ukrainian Soldiers . Ukraine Will Not Be Thrown Under The Bus
Ukraine Will Become A Member Of NATO And It's People Will Rebuild Their Bombed Out Devastated Country .
babydolla
Gold Member
did you read what i said in it's entirety or did you just gloss ovsr it??? because no where i said this was preplanned, as if some sort of grand conspiracy... to say it's preplanned must mean that putin is secretly in on it & works with the west to not only weaken his own country but to undermine his own power & that is ridiculous l0l
no, i merely said that it provides an oppurtunity to accomplish the long time goal of stopping a resurgent russia from elevating itself into a great power again, which directly benefits the chinese which are our long term rival... ukraine is just the perfect tool to do so, & thats due it's strategic value that plays a direct role in trying to make that happen
if this was as simple as *we have to stop an invasion of a sovereign nation* then with every example i provided of a nation invading another sovereign nation which you clearlys glossed over as well, would have came with the same response thst came with russia invading ukraine, which they didn't... even when russia invaded ukraine the first time in 2014, no such response l0l just sanctions that were more symbolic than they were effective
what evidence do i need of any of this??? just look at russia dwindling & the ones who are benefiting from it & you will see its primarily the united states & its allies at rhe expense or both russia & ukraine... everythinf comes with a cost, & nothing we provide is free...
Max82
Active Member
Wow... Just wow. I knew propaganda machine is working 24/7 over there but I still get surprised how lazy people are at getting informed before they just drop complete rubbish. Do you know that this conflict actually started in 2014. Do you know that in that period Ukrainian forces murdered countries civilians including children? http://www.1world1way.com/coach/terracts-major_alley-of-angels.html
There's one example. Do you know that Ukraine was so democratic and free that they were actually burning people alive and shooting the survivors?
Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building
Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
www.peoplesworld.org
little cindy lou who
Gold Member
Wow... Just wow. I knew propaganda machine is working 24/7 over there but I still get surprised how lazy people are at getting informed before they just drop complete rubbish. Do you know that this conflict actually started in 2014. Do you know that in that period Ukrainian forces murdered countries civilians including children? http://www.1world1way.com/coach/terracts-major_alley-of-angels.html
There's one example. Do you know that Ukraine was so democratic and free that they were actually burning people alive and shooting the survivors?
I understand it takes a bit of research to know the events from the last decade bit that's the least you can do before you actually get involved like you just did, otherwise you just look ignorant.Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building
Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
Checked Your Source You Posted .... Puhleeze .. Is That ALL You Have In Your Validation Of Russia
And It's Unprovoked And Bloody War Of Aggression Against Ukraine A Country Struggling For Political Stability
While Pro Russian Contingents In Its Own Country Create Division And Civil War Morphing Into A War Of Pro Russian Separatists
Fighting Ukraine In It's Border Areas ..... Then A Full On Invasion February 2022 Artillery Rockets Tanks Planes Helicopters Warships
And Subtle Hints Of Nuclear Weapons To Be Used While Thousands Of Innocent Ukrainian Civilians Are Recovered from Mass Graves
Children Women And Old Men . And You Validate All That With Some Garbage Online Source Of Info
About Some Supposed Isolated Incident Of Horrific Violence ? Really ? Now Who Is Looking " Ignorant "
Atrocities Will Exist On Both Sides Of Any Armed Conflict, Civil War, Or A War Of Survival Against An Invading Occupier .
The " Source " You Posted Makes Me Think Of The Saying .. " Ignorance Rears It's Ugly Head Again " .
Max82
Active Member
"Supposed isolated incidents" ? If your only argument is going to be denying what was documented and never even denied fact from the last decade, you better just stay quiet at that point. There are literal memorials if children with names, pictures and complete identities. The one I posted is called the alley of angels. And that's just one part of the story. What about NATO expanding to Russia's borders even tho after the fall of the Berlin wall they promised they will never expand to the east? I wonder what would happen if Russia tried getting anywhere near USA borders... Wait, did someone say Cuba? Being misinformed is one thing, but adding hypocrisy to it is on another level. 1) get informed 2) stop being hypocritical
Yes, conflict has been going on for a while, you are correct on that. But the full scale invasion started on February 24, and that's when the mass rapes/murders and bombings of civilians mostly happened. Also, calling your opponent's argument "propaganda" and "complete rubbish" isn't good debate etiquette.Wow... Just wow. I knew propaganda machine is working 24/7 over there but I still get surprised how lazy people are at getting informed before they just drop complete rubbish. Do you know that this conflict actually started in 2014. Do you know that in that period Ukrainian forces murdered countries civilians including children? http://www.1world1way.com/coach/terracts-major_alley-of-angels.html
There's one example. Do you know that Ukraine was so democratic and free that they were actually burning people alive and shooting the survivors?
I understand it takes a bit of research to know the events from the last decade bit that's the least you can do before you actually get involved like you just did, otherwise you just look ignorant.Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building
Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
Max82
Active Member
Not really. The "mass rapes/murders and bombing on civilians" were happening since the start of the conflict but those deaths don't fit the NATO narrative of Zelensky's forces being an angelic freedom fighters who fight for the lives of innocent people. In reality, a lot of them are straight up Nazis like Azov for example who were actually in western lists of far right extremist organisations until the conflict. Their agendas and ideas were actually banned in the likes of Facebook until their goals aligned with NATO goals.
Also, arguments like this :
"Checked Your Source You Posted .... Puhleeze .. Is That ALL You Have In Your Validation Of Russia"
... Deserve being called rubbish propaganda because that's exactly what they are. Are you trying to say that murdering children and civilians isn't a big deal just because they are Russian? Somehow different from other children? Or is that price just "worth it" like Madeleine Albright once said
Never said it wasn't a big deal. In fact stuff like that happened often enough during the full scale invasion that NATO and the USA got involved. A country that gets invaded without good reason is justified in defending itself and being defended by its allies in any situation.
Max82
Active Member
"Without a good reason" ... You do know that besides doing all kinds of war crimes on Russian civilians for almost a decade, Ukraine actually planned on bringing NATO directly on Russian borders? What would happen if Canada or Mexico made deal with Russia or China and supported pulling Russian/Chinese/Korean missiles and weapons near Washington or New York?
Besides where were you people with so much care for sovereignty of other nations when USA invaded Iraq for the non existent weapons of mass destruction?
What about when NATO bombed Serbia for three months and broke it's sovereignty by recognizing Kosovo as a country?
Russia is protecting it's borders and it's civilians from being mercilessly killed by Nazi military. If that's not "good enough reason" I don't know what is. When country that thinks that killing 500.000 kids is "worth it" plans to bring mass destruction missiles on your doorstep you do something about it IMMEDIATELY. Imo Russia waited too long, they should have acted years ago.
BlackLivesMatter
Gold Member
I often don't bring the real Graham into this godforsaken nests of vipers but in my line of work I have had a few clients from the Ukraine. I got a front row view of the devastation suffered by the Ukrainians. Land is being ruined, power wiped out no water, food is very limited. This was is the evil of Putin.
little cindy lou who
Gold Member
You Do Know That You Are Parroting The Russian Propaganda And It's Made Up Excuse For Slaughtering Innocent Ukrainian Civilians .
Perhaps If You Read History, You Would Know That NATO Membership Expanded As A Result Of The Break Up Of The Soviet Union .
The Instability That Resulted From The Soviet Union Break Up, Made NATO Membership Amongst Newly Formed Nations
From The Eastern Bloc Desirable Causing Them To Realign Their Foreign Policies And Alliances .
Kosovo Was About Stopping Genocide In Serbia
Iraq Could Have Been Handled Better But It's Leader Was A Problem On The World Stage
Threatening Peace And Stability In That Region
All Of Your Accusations Of A Nazi Ukrainian Government Killing Hundreds Of Thousands Of Children Is What It Is ..BULLSHIIT
The Only Nazis In Ukraine Right Now Are The Russian Nazis Attempting Genocide Of The Free And Independent People Of Ukraine
Everything You Are Saying Is Russian Propaganda
As Russia Deflects And Denies What They Are Doing In Ukraine, Accusing The Ukrainians Of Committing Mass Murder
When In Fact It Is The Russians That Are Committing Mass Murder In Ukraine .
By An Unprovoked Attack And Invasion And Bloody Occupation Of The Free And Independent People Of Ukraine .
Oh By The Way Say Hello To Your Dear Leader Vlad Putin ...Tell Him I Said To ....
" GET THE PHUCK OUTTA UKRAINE NOW ! RUSSIA GO HOME ! "
And " To Ukraine I Say .... KEEP FIGHTING ! NEVER SURRENDER ! THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING ! ..... VIVA UKRAINE ! "
Max82
Active Member
Are you even being serious? This post has so much ignorance and rage filled ranting I really hope it's some kind of lame trolling attempt. Here's an idea... Russia is in Ukraine and that's not going to change. So if you are really that invested in something you know nothing about, instead of posting cringe corny gifs online, you can volunteer in actual Ukraine and actually do something about it. Putin is hardly losing any sleep about your online rage buried in some forum.You Do Know That You Are Parroting The Russian Propaganda And It's Made Up Excuse For Slaughtering Innocent Ukrainian Civilians .
Perhaps If You Read History, You Would Know That NATO Membership Expanded As A Result Of The Break Up Of The Soviet Union .
The Instability That Resulted From The Soviet Union Break Up, Made NATO Membership Amongst Newly Formed Nations
From The Eastern Bloc Desirable Causing Them To Realign Their Foreign Policies And Alliances .
Kosovo Was About Stopping Genocide In Serbia
Iraq Could Have Been Handled Better But It's Leader Was A Problem On The World Stage
Threatening Peace And Stability In That Region
All Of Your Accusations Of A Nazi Ukrainian Government Killing Hundreds Of Thousands Of Children Is What It Is ..BULLSHIIT
The Only Nazis In Ukraine Right Now Are The Russian Nazis Attempting Genocide Of The Free And Independent People Of Ukraine
Everything You Are Saying Is Russian Propaganda
As Russia Deflects And Denies What They Are Doing In Ukraine, Accusing The Ukrainians Of Committing Mass Murder
When In Fact It Is The Russians That Are Committing Mass Murder In Ukraine .
By An Unprovoked Attack And Invasion And Bloody Occupation Of The Free And Independent People Of Ukraine .
Oh By The Way Say Hello To Your Dear Leader Vlad Putin ...Tell Him I Said To ....
" GET THE PHUCK OUTTA UKRAINE NOW ! RUSSIA GO HOME ! "
And " To Ukraine I Say .... KEEP FIGHTING ! NEVER SURRENDER ! THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING ! ..... VIVA UKRAINE ! "
Max82
Active Member
Yes, it's war and it's hurting Ukraine bad. But you are talking about the result of what's been going on over there for over a decade. WikiLeaks just published documents that show Russia was warning everyone persistently they will have to do something if NATO keeps expanding to the east and that something like this is bound to happen
WikiLeaks CIA Docs Show US Knew They were Provoking Russia into War with Ukraine - The Free Thought Project
Russia would then "have to decide whether to intervene, a decision Russia does not want to have to face."
thefreethoughtproject.com
little cindy lou who
Gold Member
Yes ... Ignorance .. Yes Indeedy You Should Be Real Familar With That Word As That Is What Defines All Of Your Posts On Ukraine
Yes Russia Is In Ukraine And Is Getting It's Russian Ass Kicked And It Will Change
As Russia Will Lose This War Because Ukraine Is Fighting the Good Fight, Defending it's Home From A Murderous Invader
Your Lame Attempt At Trolling Russian Propaganda Is A Wasted Effort Unless Someone As Ignorant As You Believes The Lies of Russian Propaganda
The Russian People Did Not Want This War .. This War Belongs To One Person Vlad Putin He Owns It And Doesn't Give Rat's Ass About
The Russian People Whom He Is Willing To Have Killed In Ukraine For His Warped Sense Of Power And
My Advice To You Is Pull Your Head Outta Your Ass And Stop Reading Russian Propaganda
Max82
Active Member
This is the representation of all the awesome people who just blindly put Ukrainian flag in their profile to feel useful in life for once. Please keep spewing your awesome knowledge all over the internet, we need more people like you. Resorting to insults is always a sign that you are full of well grounded arguments. I'll stop answering you because I am no match to your wisdom, power and intelligence. I sleep peacefully knowing that on the opposing side of Russia are people as intelligent and informed as you are. 😌Yes ... Ignorance .. Yes Indeedy You Should Be Real Familar With That Word As That Is What Defines All Of Your Posts On Ukraine
Yes Russia Is In Ukraine And Is Getting It's Russian Ass Kicked And It Will Change
As Russia Will Lose This War Because Ukraine Is Fighting the Good Fight, Defending it's Home From A Murderous Invader
Your Lame Attempt At Trolling Russian Propaganda Is A Wasted Effort Unless Someone As Ignorant As You Believes The Lies of Russian Propaganda
The Russian People Did Not Want This War .. This War Belongs To One Person Vlad Putin He Owns It And Doesn't Give Rat's Ass About
The Russian People Whom He Is Willing To Have Killed In Ukraine For His Warped Sense Of Power And
My Advice To You Is Pull Your Head Outta Your Ass And Stop Reading Russian Propaganda
BlackLivesMatter
Gold Member
Search on the internet and you can hear Trumps reaction on the USSR invading the Ukraine. When it first occurred Trump said basically the same thing Max and Putin have said that this has been building for a while. A few months later in an interview Trump called Putin a war criminal and mentioned this was suppose to take three days. Search it and you can hear the actual Trump interviews on this.
I will not condemn Russia as many in that country too are suffering from the war and I can trace my heritage to there.
However what this proves is the Russian Army or their generals suck. This quick invasion has been going on for almost a year.
This inept military effort makes me ashamed of my Russian heritage tbh.
edit stupid that you can't type g.o.o.g.l.e. without the dots
I will not condemn Russia as many in that country too are suffering from the war and I can trace my heritage to there.
However what this proves is the Russian Army or their generals suck. This quick invasion has been going on for almost a year.
This inept military effort makes me ashamed of my Russian heritage tbh.
edit stupid that you can't type g.o.o.g.l.e. without the dots
little cindy lou who
Gold Member
RUSSIANS GO HOME ! ..... VIVA UKRAINE !
