Chomby
Active Member
Gender and sex are different. Gender is psychological and sex is physiological. Gender can change because it is psychological, and the human mind can change. Does that make sense?
There is no LGB without the T
- Thread starter Louize
- Start date
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree.
life is complicated yes, and weird. I do understand that.
Chomby
Active Member
Disagreeing with a fact doesn't make it any less true, but disbelieve whatever you want. I'm not your mom.
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
You think it is a 'fact'. I do not think that.
Who is correct? Who knows ... It's called 'an opinion'.
FACTS - are that women have vaginas, and men have penises.
i dont care if people 'psychologically' "think" they are the opposite sex or gender.
Biological reality says your view of 'facts', are incorrect.
This seems to be a recurring theme on both sides of the argument. You’re all so desperate to push your opinions on others. It’s incredibly dehumanising to the trans community. A community, I might add, who never seem to waste time in these debates.
At the end of the day, whether you support them or your don’t, your opinion is about as useful as a fart in the wind.
How these people choose to live their lives in none of your concern. It doesn’t affect you in any way. You don’t need to agree with something to have respect.
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
Unfortunately no, that does not make sense.
'Gender can change'. really? that is your opinion.
You say things are facts because you believe them to be true?
That doesnt make things 'facts'.
Some people believe the Earth is Flat.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however wrong-headed it might be.
Including me.
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
try telling that to the male rapists who pretend to be females in women's prisons, and rape more women.
(more facts).
(facts that have happened specifically in Scotland, indeed, if you know anything).
Hurrah for the SNP.
FINN -
"How these people choose to live their lives in none of your concern. It doesn’t affect you in any way. You don’t need to agree with something to have respect."
It concerns me because I care about a) women b) equality c) logic and reason ....
...
I care about my natural-born female family members, so yes it does affect me.
eg. CRIME STATS. Men commit most violent crimes. men who think they are women - 'psychologically' are still men, and commit the same proportion of violent crimes.
You can pick out the bad eggs in any group of people. Any gender, race, religion, sexuality. Those despicable PEOPLE do no represent the entire group. If that is your argument against the entire trans community, then it’s not a very strong one.
-Luka
Platinum Member
Not all “trans” women are rapists, but they are men. And the minority should not impact the whole community but it does.
The same was my point was about asylum seekers in another thread. Different topic and situation, yes, principle is the same.
Anyway as for trans since it’s about the T, acceptance on agreeing to disagree should be at the forefront.
Most important thing about acceptance is, people need to accept others will not pander to the other sides views.
I had a polite moment because I’ve just had breakfast.
The same was my point was about asylum seekers in another thread. Different topic and situation, yes, principle is the same.
Anyway as for trans since it’s about the T, acceptance on agreeing to disagree should be at the forefront.
Most important thing about acceptance is, people need to accept others will not pander to the other sides views.
I had a polite moment because I’ve just had breakfast.
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
I didnt really wanna re-engage with this.
I wasnt saying the minority represents the entire group, or people etc.
Definitely not making a point about everyone who is trans.
yet - 'thinks they are born in the wrong body', for example. Yeah, that makes sense.
just pointing out some salient things. 'facts', regarding why some people get angry.
and why it affects all of us. We all have female relations, and Mothers. It affects all of us.
And it's Logic, my friend. And Reason.
"dehumanising to the trans community. A community, I might add, who never seem to waste time in these debates".
so ... what 'community' is wasting time in these debates?
Guardian-newspaper readers?
Hand-wringing Lefty types? the Fabian Society?
It is an issue, whether you or I like it or not.
I wasnt saying the minority represents the entire group, or people etc.
Definitely not making a point about everyone who is trans.
yet - 'thinks they are born in the wrong body', for example. Yeah, that makes sense.
just pointing out some salient things. 'facts', regarding why some people get angry.
and why it affects all of us. We all have female relations, and Mothers. It affects all of us.
And it's Logic, my friend. And Reason.
"dehumanising to the trans community. A community, I might add, who never seem to waste time in these debates".
so ... what 'community' is wasting time in these debates?
Guardian-newspaper readers?
Hand-wringing Lefty types? the Fabian Society?
It is an issue, whether you or I like it or not.
so your example of bad trans people are people who aren't trans.
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
dude, i totally DONT mean that all trans people are bad.
it's nuanced.
Just discussing things.
there are some 'Bad actors' - that phrase, I guess.
my main point is
"and why it affects all of us. We all have female relations, and Mothers. It affects all of us."
Louize
Gold Member
A man transitioning doesn't affect me as a biological woman. Why do you think it does, may I ask? As I reiterated before, I've never been attacked by a trans woman, I have been attacked by biological men. Someone transitioning doesn't change the struggles I had developing as a biological woman it merely means they had different and their own struggles.
We used to same arguments against biological women in order to deny them a vote, they were a danger. We weren't ready to have responsibilities beyond the household.
We used the same arguments against gay men before it was 2025 with gay men vastly accepted, they were a threat to our children. It was unnatural.
The same arguments being used against the trans community have been used multiple times before.
You saying that people pretend to be trans women to attack other women means they are not trans. It means they are still biological, straight men who want to attack women... Why aren't you focusing on the straight men who are finding another way to attack women instead of focusing your hatred on people who are truly just wanting to live life as a different gender with no harm to others? Because that's the majority of people who are transitioning. They don't wish harm in any way.
I just find it all very weird how you don't see the pattern and instead follow media coverage suggesting a minority of an already very small minority can do any harm for just wanting to live.
Biological men want scapegoats for their own hatred towards others, and this time round it's just the trans community they are wanting to attack.
Can we also acknowledge that once again, the arguments being made are only towards trans women, not trans men. Like you all forget there's another way to transition.
We used to same arguments against biological women in order to deny them a vote, they were a danger. We weren't ready to have responsibilities beyond the household.
We used the same arguments against gay men before it was 2025 with gay men vastly accepted, they were a threat to our children. It was unnatural.
The same arguments being used against the trans community have been used multiple times before.
You saying that people pretend to be trans women to attack other women means they are not trans. It means they are still biological, straight men who want to attack women... Why aren't you focusing on the straight men who are finding another way to attack women instead of focusing your hatred on people who are truly just wanting to live life as a different gender with no harm to others? Because that's the majority of people who are transitioning. They don't wish harm in any way.
I just find it all very weird how you don't see the pattern and instead follow media coverage suggesting a minority of an already very small minority can do any harm for just wanting to live.
Biological men want scapegoats for their own hatred towards others, and this time round it's just the trans community they are wanting to attack.
Can we also acknowledge that once again, the arguments being made are only towards trans women, not trans men. Like you all forget there's another way to transition.
OK "phobics," Explain Klinefelter Syndrome. I am a woman born BOTH GENDERS. I have a vagina, something considered a penis, had one testical, have an ovary, and have breasts. Klinefelter patients have an extra sex chromosome IE: xxy, in my case. The Y chromosome is also different with built in extra genetic code. WE DO EXIST!!!
That depends on the circumstances but really why does anyone need to get affronted. The abortion debate is similar. It has nothing to do with anyone else what an individual wants to do with their own body so by all means have views but the noise surrounding trans people is incredibly disproportionate.
The crowd I lump together are the ones with little going on in their lives except obsessing over trans people and spinning out deranged conspiracy theories, often while hiding behind a screen.
To them, I say:
- How many trans people do you actually run into in a month?
- Of those, how many cause trouble simply because they’re trans?
- Of those, how many are out there “forcing kids to change genders,” like some imagine in their fever dreams?
- Are you really that dense that you’d think a man would go through years of hormone therapy and surgery as a mechanism to sexually assault a woman? Secondly, why the fixation on MTF trans people. Let’s not leave out the FTM. Is the argument there that they transition so they can sexually assault men, or is it women they want to sexually assault by transitioning, or is your fixation on rape and sexual assault more to do with your own mind?
And finally, who cares what someone else wants to be called? Him, her, they, them, banana. Why does it matter to you? If you can make someone else feel less bad about themselves. Also harking back to point 1 above. Trans people are such a small minority the likelihood of encountering even one in your day is minimal, so why spend so much time obsessing over it?
(Explanation for why I describe those people as I do, not aimed at you Random)
Point of clarification (unless there’s another case I’m not familiar with) the person referred to (Bryson) raped a woman in 2016 and another in 2019 after meeting them online.
Bryson “came out as trans” in 2020 and was on remand in a women’s prison pending trial, although segregated from other inmates. Bryson was convicted of the rapes in 2023. The rapes didn’t occur prior to any gender change.
As far as I know Bryson is now in a male prison and hasn’t raped anyone which debunks what you describe as facts, although Bryon’s wife claimed that she was the victim of Bryson attempting to rape her and stab her 7 years prior.
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
I mostly agree with what you said, and I agree with @Louize and @Chomby too.
yet, it is my right to respectfully disagree, too.
As far as i remember, that guy did 'identify' as trans, and raped a woman in a female gaol. jail.
Disgraceful.
I care about 'logic' and 'reason'.
if people want to call themselves whatever, and think of themselves as however, ... that is mostly ok with me. MOSTLY.
i dont like it when MEN MALES, tell WOMEN, FEMALES, how they think and who they are.
I think that is wrong.
Is it logical to pick out one possible example and use that as the basis of an entire argument? An argument, I might add, that is all over the place. What is the issue you have? Is it the small minority of men who have potentially abused the transition process for their own nefarious purposes? Is it that you don't agree with the policing of language, especially concerning pronouns? Is it what you perceive as men taking over women's spaces?
I think the arguments you're trying to make come from a good place, I don't see anything malicious. But I'd urge you to actually think about the points you're trying to make before presenting them. There are a number of trans people within this chat community, and I'd hate for them to have to see you, however accidentally, comparing them to rapists and sex offenders.
RandomGuyUK
Silver Member
i didnt mean to say that, i didnt mean to suggest that at all.
No of course not - trans arent rapists or offenders ... no more than the general populace ...
90percent of those crimes are committed by males though.
I Just mean for the last 100 years, women have been struggling for equality.
It seems to me, it erodes the whole idea of equality and respect, when guys who 'psychologically' 'think' they are women, can tell women how they think and feel.