No. I mean individuals choosing to express themselves however they want as is their right. Without interference.
I chose to introduce the gay gene argument to show how ridiculous your own trans gene statement was.
Do keep up.
Can kids become transgender ?
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I chose to introduce the gay gene argument to show how ridiculous your own trans gene statement was.
Do keep up.
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Deleted member 292068
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You mean the ones who tend to excuse pedophilia in the Church/ignore it but wanna claim trans/drag queens/gay people adopting a surrogate baby are the pedos?
The ones who watched Trump hold a Bible upside down like he's Satanic, or watched him say this :
And we're like "He has core Christian values!"?
Again... stop pulling info that isn't remotely true out of your ass.
Really? A lot of trans kids' parents hate them and even disown them for it... that's a ridiculous thing to say.
According to the average result of 27 studies across different countries that surveyed the percentage of people who expressed regret after having a transition surgery, about 1% of people who transitioned ended up regretting it. For context, the regret/dissatisfaction rate for a knee replacement surgery is around 20%.
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Deleted member 263960
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ok so you introduced a false analogy. You might want to read up on the genetic info regarding gays though -there is genetic evidence , just no gay gene. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/4482/
Kids would most likely not question their gender nearly as much if schools, the media. social media didnt advocate it. Although the only proof I could offer is rates of trans identification were essentially non existant until radical feminists introduced the idea that gender was a social construct in that late forties and again in the 60s..
Children are not property of the state, so i take issue of special interest groups or teachers confusing kids with things they otherwise probably would never have thought of.
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Deleted member 292068
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How much do you want to bet the regret comes from harassment or not actual trans people. People like that puffer fish who got surgery to look Korean then regretted it and claims he "de transitioned"? Oh, he's with the Right Wing grift now too.
You just can't stop making yourself look worse, can you? You claim to be a liberal but are using Right Wing echo chamber talking points by using the lie that schools are teaching kids to be trans. They're not. You can't make someone gay or trans and were at a point where kids have trans or gay parents so it's important to let them know they exist. They're not playing porn in school. Ffs I knew about being attracted to the opposite sex in 2nd grade, as did a lot of other kids who bullied girls because they liked them. They're teaching to love someone regardless of how they were born.
That's because people are a lot less likely to come out if they might literally be killed for it lol.
Really? Never met a boy who wanted to wear makeup or a dress? Never met a boy who acted "feminine" and didn't really fit any aspects of stereotypical masculinity at all? Because that's a big part of what gender identity is.
Not supporting your kids' choices is what's best to protect kids? And do you also agree with the parents who disown their kids for being trans, in your interest of what's best for kids? My god.
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It was introduced to illustrate your own ridiculous trans gene statement. There's a gene associated with but not necessarily indicative of homosexuality. It can equally be present in straight people. Things are far more complicated than that.
Young people have always been uncertain of who they are or what sexuality they are. In the past strong societal pressure and outright bigotry forced them to suppress and conform. Not any more though, we live in a much healthier society and long may it last.
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Deleted member 263960
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in my day yes I did. whats your point though
I didnt say I supported any kid being disowned. I do support the parents inherit right to guide their own kids growth, not some special interest group, lobby or the like.
An example is schools allowing kids to change their names, pronouns etc without parental consent or or beginning any form of gender affirming medical care without parental consent.
@BlackLivesMatter you ok with the depicting a dragon puppet as hitler, im personally traumatized as I identify as a dragon.
your doing it again, now you conflate gender with sexuality- Trans say those are different- am I wrong ....
Or at the very least you tried to use gay issues in place of trans issues.
Make up your mind please.
!tulsa!
Gold Member
My belief (mind you the definition of a belief is something that is held true regardless of whether or not it is grounded by objective fact) is that this question applies differently to different portions of our population. That being said. I’m not very much a belief type of person, so, I will give as many facts as I can.
For the albeit small but nonetheless important group of people that are born intersex or some variation of…… absolutely it’s okay. I think it’s insane to choose the gender of someone who obviously displays characteristics of both genders or cannot be put into the obvious categories of male or female upon first glance. This category of people are only born 1-4 times in every 2000 births. The figure is shaky because of obvious cultural stresses and recording errors. That would still put the conservative estimate for the population of this category of people somewhere around 5.6 million in the United States, which is by no means a small number. The obvious problem is that if you assign a person their gender before their personality has had time to form, it may not match what they feel as an adult human being.
This is an issue that has been around for a very long time. My belief is that they are sort of a third gender. A bridge of the sexes so to speak. I don’t believe it to be “unnatural” or a “disorder” myself, as you can find many examples of intersex species in nature.
As for the rest of the normies…. No way. Kids will grow as people well past an adult age, and any *major* changes to one’s body shouldn’t be performed until they are of an age to accurately understand the consequences thereof. Past that, I can’t really say that I have an opinion. Your body. Your life. Do what you want with it as long as your actions aren’t hurting anyone else.
I think that the biggest disconnect in the conversation here are the actual numbers of people that are born this way. It seems like a small percentage, but when coupled with the actual population of the United States, the number becomes much larger (similar to the way someone from a rural area would not have seen the same impact that someone living in New York would have seen, because of population densities, with CoVid). 5.6 million people relative to the population of the entirety of the United States is a small number, but 5.6 million people is still a literal **** ton of people.
I think that if more people were aware of the actual amounts of people born this way, and the actual definitions of intersex babies, that a more valid conversation could then be had about things.
Just some thoughts.
For the albeit small but nonetheless important group of people that are born intersex or some variation of…… absolutely it’s okay. I think it’s insane to choose the gender of someone who obviously displays characteristics of both genders or cannot be put into the obvious categories of male or female upon first glance. This category of people are only born 1-4 times in every 2000 births. The figure is shaky because of obvious cultural stresses and recording errors. That would still put the conservative estimate for the population of this category of people somewhere around 5.6 million in the United States, which is by no means a small number. The obvious problem is that if you assign a person their gender before their personality has had time to form, it may not match what they feel as an adult human being.
This is an issue that has been around for a very long time. My belief is that they are sort of a third gender. A bridge of the sexes so to speak. I don’t believe it to be “unnatural” or a “disorder” myself, as you can find many examples of intersex species in nature.
As for the rest of the normies…. No way. Kids will grow as people well past an adult age, and any *major* changes to one’s body shouldn’t be performed until they are of an age to accurately understand the consequences thereof. Past that, I can’t really say that I have an opinion. Your body. Your life. Do what you want with it as long as your actions aren’t hurting anyone else.
I think that the biggest disconnect in the conversation here are the actual numbers of people that are born this way. It seems like a small percentage, but when coupled with the actual population of the United States, the number becomes much larger (similar to the way someone from a rural area would not have seen the same impact that someone living in New York would have seen, because of population densities, with CoVid). 5.6 million people relative to the population of the entirety of the United States is a small number, but 5.6 million people is still a literal **** ton of people.
I think that if more people were aware of the actual amounts of people born this way, and the actual definitions of intersex babies, that a more valid conversation could then be had about things.
Just some thoughts.
@H.R. PufnStuf You're using pedantry to divert the argument away from yourself. For sexuality read gender or sexuality and don't use cheap tricks to avoid the point .
My point is that you can't say trans kids didn't exist in your day when you just admitted that you knew kids who didn't fit the typical identity traits of the gender they were assigned at birth.
A lot - I'd even say the majority - of parents who don't support their kid transitioning are doing it out of bigotry, not a goodwilled attempt to guide their kid's growth. Part of being a good parent is supporting your kid (in most situations, at least).
We were at page 4... as you like to say, Godwin's law had to be invoked.
Heathen2002
Banned
Because cants like you with your bigotry, lack of empathy and knuckle dragging intelligence create an environment of opproession where those that need support and understanding fear rejection and so hide who they are.
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Deleted member 263960
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im not trying to say they didnt exist. Im saying it wasnt heard of essentially. Im saying there were fewer because it wasnt for lack of better words- pushed. The types you describe a few were probably gay, and maybe they were experimenting at what then was called transvestitism. ( the girls never... I heard of any wanting to be boys, although we had the *tom boy* ) one of I know of ended up being Lez
I realize its anecdotal
godwins law proven again agreed
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Fun fact! Not only do transgender people think that gender identity and sexuality are different, everyone who is familiar with the definition of each support this belief too!
gen·der i·den·ti·ty
noun
a person's innate sense of their gender
sex·u·al·i·ty
noun
a person's identity in relation to the gender or genders to which they are typically attracted; sexual orientation
My gender identity may correlate with he, she, or they, but my sexuality correlates with gay, straight, or asexual. (Note, this is not an exhaustive list, just a few examples to illustrate the difference.)
have fun banging your head against the wall.
OK @H.R. PufnStuf let's clarify this now I'm back at my laptop and can quote and format properly.
I said this:
Note the part I've emboldened for clarity. If you'd read this properly and not rushed to divert the argument with pedantry, you'd have grasped the rather obvious meaning of the statement. "Who they are" or "What sexuality they are" as in where on the gender spectrum they fall and what their sexuality may be.
Instead, you rushed to divert and came back with this:
Poor debating technique at best, diversionary tactics at worst.
You might not like the idea of young people determining their own future by personal experimentation but it's a damn sight healthier for them to do so than for your "I know best" imposition attempting to wrest their personal freedom and future from them.
As I've said several times during this thread, it's nobody's business but the individuals themselves. Society has an unhealthy and prurient obsession with who is doing what with who. It's mostly driven by old people with either very conservative views or religious fundamentalists/extremists. I'll further add that attempting to impose control and force compliance has never worked in the long term. Good parents support and guide but let the individuals find their own paths through life and are there when their children need them. Bad parents force their own opinions and "morals"on their children and set expectations that rarely work.
We're not in the 1900s now.
I said this:
Note the part I've emboldened for clarity. If you'd read this properly and not rushed to divert the argument with pedantry, you'd have grasped the rather obvious meaning of the statement. "Who they are" or "What sexuality they are" as in where on the gender spectrum they fall and what their sexuality may be.
Instead, you rushed to divert and came back with this:
Poor debating technique at best, diversionary tactics at worst.
You might not like the idea of young people determining their own future by personal experimentation but it's a damn sight healthier for them to do so than for your "I know best" imposition attempting to wrest their personal freedom and future from them.
As I've said several times during this thread, it's nobody's business but the individuals themselves. Society has an unhealthy and prurient obsession with who is doing what with who. It's mostly driven by old people with either very conservative views or religious fundamentalists/extremists. I'll further add that attempting to impose control and force compliance has never worked in the long term. Good parents support and guide but let the individuals find their own paths through life and are there when their children need them. Bad parents force their own opinions and "morals"on their children and set expectations that rarely work.
We're not in the 1900s now.
JosephTheMainMan
Active Member
The average tiktok experience will prove that parents are pushing for children to be mentally unwell.
Louize
Gold Member
Let kids be kids.
If my nephew came to me and wanted his makeup doing, well, then, let's play makeup, if my niece wanted action man instead of barbie, that's also great, let's go get it.
I think we just need to let kids explore their own thoughts and feelings and explain it's okay to do that. My little brother once wanted to be called Colin and wouldn't answer to his own name for months. We just went along with it because he was clearly figuring himself out. It should be the same with their gender. As they age they will get a clearer answer and as long as they're supported and accepted in the initial exploration, they will feel comfortable discussing their feelings on their gender and sexuality more articulately.
Let's not pretend this hasn't always existed. The difference is, as a society we're more aware that what prior generations would have berated children for, isn't for the best. Explaining it away as a phase is detrimental. If it turns out to be a phase, cool, if it doesn't, at least they don't feel pressured to lie and say it is to appease a parent or adult for fear of being rejected and belittled.
I think the issues come in with hormone suppressants and things prior to being at least on the older end of teen ages where they can communicate and that's where there needs to be therapists/counselling and medical intervention to establish that it is the correct route for someone and the safest, healthiest way to do so.
Tl;Dr don't be a ****, let kids be kids, educate yourself, and support your kids regardless of their gender identity or sexuality. If it continues until they're old enough to communicate it clearly, seek the help of therapists and doctors to gain more information and choices.
Not every trans person wants to have gender reassignment surgery.
If my nephew came to me and wanted his makeup doing, well, then, let's play makeup, if my niece wanted action man instead of barbie, that's also great, let's go get it.
I think we just need to let kids explore their own thoughts and feelings and explain it's okay to do that. My little brother once wanted to be called Colin and wouldn't answer to his own name for months. We just went along with it because he was clearly figuring himself out. It should be the same with their gender. As they age they will get a clearer answer and as long as they're supported and accepted in the initial exploration, they will feel comfortable discussing their feelings on their gender and sexuality more articulately.
Let's not pretend this hasn't always existed. The difference is, as a society we're more aware that what prior generations would have berated children for, isn't for the best. Explaining it away as a phase is detrimental. If it turns out to be a phase, cool, if it doesn't, at least they don't feel pressured to lie and say it is to appease a parent or adult for fear of being rejected and belittled.
I think the issues come in with hormone suppressants and things prior to being at least on the older end of teen ages where they can communicate and that's where there needs to be therapists/counselling and medical intervention to establish that it is the correct route for someone and the safest, healthiest way to do so.
Tl;Dr don't be a ****, let kids be kids, educate yourself, and support your kids regardless of their gender identity or sexuality. If it continues until they're old enough to communicate it clearly, seek the help of therapists and doctors to gain more information and choices.
Not every trans person wants to have gender reassignment surgery.
Schism
Active Member
This is actually factually incorrect information. Gender has been recognized as a social construct from sociologists and anthropologists since they started observing gender roles in history and various other cultures. My aunt's an internationally known professor emeritus of sociology, I grew up learning about it 🙂
I'm going to add something else. I don't believe in performing any gender reaffirming medical procedures or prescribing anything that could permanently alter biology to children, at all. I do believe we need to let kids be themselves and experiment with gender roles in this day and age, because society is changing, and we are recognizing that the gender roles in our society that worked for the last couple hundred years don't fit our current way of life, and that's ok. Maybe we need to stop putting so much of a focus on gender roles in general and just let people be their unique selves without trying to put a label on everything.
You'll have to excuse me, as I've never had Tick Tock, much less used the platform to conduct a transgender youth study. What other conclusions have you drawn from your time there?
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